Aihe: Swiss Caravaner searching for Help - Primus Aquaflex AQWE6

@Patrick: "i will try to measure the PCB-Board Pins 26, 27, and JP2 pin 4,3 tonight"

- We must expect rapid changes in these signals, probably beyound human reception, but
  hopefully we get something usefull. Digital storage oscilloscope would be the king.
  Anyway, be carefull when touching MCU:s pins, it is easy to make unrepairable damage.


/*Laitan tähän suomeksi hieman vaikutelmia tästä tapauksesta siltä varalta että joku saattaisi
huomata jotain oleellista vaikka ei muutoin olisikaan kiinnostunut seuraamaan englanninkielistä
ketjua. Itse en ehkä ehdi suuremmin tietokoneen ääreen "päästäisen hulinan&voimienkeruun" aikana.

  Oheisessa videotallenteessa kuvittelen näkeväni että polttimen käynnistys
alkaa normaalin oloisesti aina siihen saakka kunnes on aika avata kaasuventtiileitä,
(pääventtiili+4kW teho + sytytys). 4kW teho:n pitosignaalista kertoo kaksi ylintä LED:iä mutta
ne räpsähtävät vain lyhyesti samalla kun arvelen kuulevani ainakin jonkin venttiilin vetävän.
Eli ainakin yksi venttiilin vetosignaali olisi todennettu. Ilmeisesti vain mittaus kertonee
saadaanko useampia. Joka tapauksessa nyt kun hälytysmerkkivalo on saatu toimimaan niin se kertoo
että tapahtuu siirtyminen häiriötilaan, tuohan sotki aluksi päättelyä pahanpäiväisesti.

  Olisi hyvä jos joku muukin tarkistaisi mitä näkee tuolla videolla, näkeekö saman
mitä minä olen näkevinäni joka siis poikkeaa hieman siitä mitä aloittaja kertoo tilanteesta.
Voisiko videotoistin tehdä jotain tällaista?

   Päättelen niin että 4kW teho:n pitosignaalin katoaminen on niin nopea ettei syynä
voisi olla tieto liekinseurannasta vaan tapahtuu jokin suora sisäinen reaktio, esim. jännitteen
notkahdus vetokelojen kuorman aiheuttamana. Miten sitten todentaa noin nopeita tapahtumia
yleismittarilla.... . ehkä täytyy keksiä jotain.

 Aloittaja on nyt ilmeisesti mitannut lämpöanturilta vastuksen 27.4kohm joka rinnakkaiskuormanki n
kanssa on varsin korkea mutta kun polttimen käynnistyssekvenssi epäonnistuu niin se pitänee selvittää
ensin.*/

dear community, sorry for my late response, needed to find the easter eggs

JP2 Pin 3   Right connector   2kW heating control - 11.5V
JP2 Pin 4   Right connector   4kW heating control - 11.5V

i tested it via land power, and battery power. i have now a suspect on my aftermarket Victron Blue Charger which i run in a combination with a Voltic 35Ah LIFEPO Battery.


the Pins

PIC Pin 26   IC1 right side   Drives control transistor (Q22 path)
PIC Pin 27   IC1 right side   Drives control transistor (Q1 path)

i have not yet measured since i dont have so small tips at my hand, need to organize those before.


thank you and happy easters

Good day everyone


I have resolved the battery issues, now i have better and constant current.

I measured again durring the startphase:


PIC Pin 26    - 5.1v - 5.4v
PIC Pin 27   -  0v
JP2 Pin 3   -  12.8v
JP2 Pin 4   -  12.4v



Still the same situation, it tries to start, and goes to error on the controller (as in the video).

Any ideas?

Thank you and have a good day

Good day everyone


I have resolved the battery issues, now i have better and constant current. (i ment the voltage, not current (wrong translated))

I measured again durring the startphase:


PIC Pin 26    - 5.1v - 5.4v
PIC Pin 27   -  0v
JP2 Pin 3   -  12.8v
JP2 Pin 4   -  12.4v



Still the same situation, it tries to start, and goes to error on the controller (as in the video).

Any ideas?

Thank you and have a good day

@Patrick:
"PIC Pin 26   IC1 right side   Drives control transistor (Q22 path)"
"PIC Pin 27   IC1 right side   Drives control transistor (Q1 path)"

-Q22?  Q1? Have you measured something of Q22/Q1?

@Patrick:
"PIC Pin 26    - 5.1v - 5.4v
PIC Pin 27   -  0v
JP2 Pin 3   -  12.8v
JP2 Pin 4   -  12.4v"

- Do you mean these voltages kept these levels (all the way during
  starting sequence) without changes? I expected some rapid transitions.

How would you descripe the behaviour of valve unit LEDs during starting sequence?
I mean, as precisily as possible and also time referenced to ignition "buzz"
(I understand you recognized ignition by its sound?)

Do you see voltage on JP2/pin2 simultaneously with ignition "buzz"?

The Voltage starts from 0V to the measured values when i hear the click in the gas switch. After a few seconds (need to count exactly) i would say, 3-5secs, the voltage decreases within 1sec back to 0v.

The ignititor is good to hear after the gas switch "clacking sound", its a very silent frequently pulsing sound (ca 3-4secs)

To your question: Do you see voltage on JP2/pin2 simultaneously with ignition "buzz"? >>>> i need to verify this tonight, i feel like it is the same time, but not 100% sure.

i measured again


PIC Pin 26   5.1v - 5.4v (while igntion is active)
PIC Pin 27   0v
JP2 Pin 3   12.8v  -  13.0v constant (while igntion is active)
JP2 Pin 4   12.4v  -  1sec 12.8v, then 12.5v (while igntion is active)

Being busy these days my response have delayed but some quick notes here anyway:

- As you may noticed in #1. for gas to flow it takes two (solenoid)valves to operate.
 
      The main (security)valve which is always needed.
 
              And

      one or both of heating power control valves (2kW or 4kW).

   All these requires a holding voltage to keep open and at least a pulse of actuating
   voltage to open. Those LEDs tells only of holding voltage of heating power control valves,
   they do not tell anything about valve actuations.

 So, the "clacking sound" tells about opening of one valve. Distinguishing of two valves
to open is needed. Without any electrical measuring you might try to touch those solenoids
to feel if they operate.

  There is another way to check gas flow wery directly:

As you open the bottle valve shortly, then if you later open some gas appliance valve (f.e.
gas stove) you may hear "a hizz" and may even light it up for a second. That is also a practical
way to check for leaks in system. Now, if you have tried to start your heater in meantime and
found that gas is disappered from distribution lines, you know that your Aquaflex had succeeded
to open gas flow at least for a moment (during starting sequence). If there is still pressure
left in lines then one of the needed valves has failed to open.

@Mjerica

Sorry, i was also not checking since last friday (the website was also not working for 2 days, at least in Switzerland)

i will try the mentioned tests.

Other question:

When i start the heater on electric power, with mode 1 (1kw) no matter what temperature i set, the system keeps heating up until i feel like in a sauna.
Could this be related to the temperature senros (rt1) or the potentio meter (temperature selector) which is broken?


thanks again

@Mjerica

Sorry, i was also not checking since last friday (the website was also not working for 2 days, at least in Switzerland)

i will try the mentioned tests.

Other question:

When i start the heater on electric power, with mode 1 (1kw) no matter what temperature i set, the system keeps heating up until i feel like in a sauna.
Could this be related to the temperature senros (rt1) or the potentio meter (temperature selector) which is broken?


thanks again

Se liittyy ohjauspaneelin lämpötila-anturiin tai trimmeri potentiometriin  ( lämmön säätö ).

@Patrick: "Could this be related to the temperature senros (rt1) or the potentio meter
            (temperature selector) which is broken?"

- As you have measured 27.4kohm of temperature sensor with parallel resistors it is way too high
  and explaines why electric heating is uncontrolled. When we get gas heating fixed it will do the same.

  You can fix that separately, just desolder sensor and measure it. It's nominal value is 47kohm (@25C)
  but I believe it is failed and presents much higher value. If so, and if you have easy access to spare
  parts, it might make sense to get new NTC-sensor before the gas starting fault is traced. It is up to
  your priority.

Hi, this would be a 47kOhm Resistor, but im not 100% sure, if the temperature scale is the correct?

https://www.reichelt.com/ch/de/shop/produkt/ntc_widerstand_450_mw_47_kohm-240049

thanks for an advice