Karavaanarin keskustelufoorumi
Tekniikkakeskustelut => Lämmitys ja ilmastointi => Primus => Aiheen aloitti: swiss_guy - 27.03.2026 kello on 11:05
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Dear community, i live in Switzerland near Zurich, im 44 and have a wife 2 kids and a dog ;) we have a 99 Polar 560GS Caravan wich we use as family and still love.
I have read nearly every thread about the Primus Aquaflex - Gas ignitor problem.
My Problem:
Initially i was no more able to activate the 12v pump via the control panel (big button). So i replace the BOSCH Relais.
Then i found out, the heater (Electric / Gas) works only when the water heater is also turned on, but everything was working.
This spring i wanted to test the Gas heater, not working.
I hear the blower turns on, after 15sec the gas switch opens (on the gas switch for a short time the 3rd led is active, then only the 2 top leds are active > see attached picture), the ignitor is active for 2-3 secs, then the blower starts to turn faster and nothing happens.
I checked the wiring, i checked the board from the controller, everything seems to be ok.
i suspect the following according to other troubleshooting topics;
- bad temperature sensors (one or both)
- the black flame sensor connected to the board
- the controller switch (last year after a bad ignition a red led was activated > this is no more the case)
- something broken on the controller
may i ask the finish experts for an advice?
Thank you very much and have a nice day.
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Ei siis punainen häriövalo pala? Lämmitin käynnistyy siten, että kaksi punaista lediä syttyy. Epäilen, että sinulla on kaasuventtiilin valkoinen liitin murtunut juotoksista. Meneekö tosiaan musta johto liekin tunnistin liittimeen? Sehän tarkoittaa, että kärjet on vaihdettu.
(https://karavaanari.org/kuvat/1774603123.jpg)
(https://karavaanari.org/kuvat/1774603178.jpg)
(https://karavaanari.org/kuvat/1774603191.jpg)
(https://karavaanari.org/kuvat/1774603211.jpg)
(https://karavaanari.org/kuvat/1774603239.jpg)
(https://karavaanari.org/kuvat/1774603350.jpg)
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Hello, that was quick :)
The 2 LED are active when i activate the Gas button.
The 3rd LED is only active for 1sec, and then turns off.
i resoldered the cable socket on the board (i think its the flame detector with the black cable going down to the heater) it has only 1 pin.
you think the cable is broken?
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Hi, seems some misinterpretation to me....
@LaemmitinGuru: "Epaeilen, ettae sinulla on kaasuventtiilin valkoinen liitin murtunut juotoksista"
< I suspect you got broken solderjoint at gasvalves white connector >
"Meneekoe tosiaan musta johto liekin tunnistin liittimeen? Sehaen tarkoittaa, että kaerjet on vaihdettu"
< Black wire to the flame detector? It means electrodes has been swapped >
Just a comment.... Black wire to the flame detector? Should'n be indeed. That wire is a of special
insulation like PTF ("teflon"), bright non-coloured, slightly stiff, the only of its kind in the
apparatus.
Do you have a multimeter at hand?
I'll come back to this at next night (if not solved before that)
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At least here in Finnland we consider these repairs of caravanheaters
as "business as usual". Some of us are self sufficient, some may embark
themselves by help of fellow caravanpeople. But to comform the way of
helping it is always necessary to know about resourses and abilities
available of those been helped.
So you might shortly tell something about capabilities of yours
in technical matters. Can you read schematics? Can you conduct electrical
measurements assisted/unassisted? Have you basic understanding in
electronics.
Aquaflex is not too complicated thing in general and we can
guide you throught fault tracing if you feel confident in making some
electrical measurements.
BTW, you didn't specify if your starting attemps ends up into alarm state?
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good morning,
i checked the flame cable, its the white stiffer cable (going into the burner) but optically, i would say, its not cracked, and i dont know if i can unplug it down on the burner side?
question: is it possible that the temperature sensors are broken? what would be the resistance in OHM of these?
My understanding is as well, that the 3 LED on the Gas Magnet Valve should be active, according to the power i pull?, so 2,4,6kw?
Thanks
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@Scoop
im working since 25 years as a systems engineer in the IT Datacenter Environment. My education then, end of 2002 included some electric explaing, so i can measure voltage, conduction etc, also very small understanding of reading schematics, i have basic soldering skills, but thats it. :)
about your question if it turns to a failure. On the controlpanel there is only a green led, when i press the big button to enable the heater pump. nothing red appears, even after after 15min waiting. i thought in the past, i had once a red led on, when i forgot to open up the gas bottle valve. In this years trouble shooting i never got a red led.
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@Scoop
im working since 25 years as a systems engineer in the IT Datacenter Environment. My education then, end of 2002 included some electric explaing, so i can measure voltage, conduction etc, also very small understanding of reading schematics, i have basic soldering skills, but thats it. :)
about your question if it turns to a failure. On the controlpanel there is only a green led, when i press the big button to enable the heater pump. nothing red appears, even after after 15min waiting. i thought in the past, i had once a red led on, when i forgot to open up the gas bottle valve. In this years trouble shooting i never got a red led.
Oletko todennut, että lämmitin käynnistyy, mutta kolmosteho ei pysy päällä? Kolmostehon pitää pysyä päällä noin 17 sekuntia jonka jälkeen kakkosteho on päällä tasan minuutin. Tämä sykli toistuu niin kauan kuin kolmostehoa tarvitaan. Jos lämmitin ei käynnisty niin sen pitää mennä häiriötilaan. Tarkista ohjauspaneelin NTC-vastuksen juotokset. Vastusarvo on tuo kytkentäkuvan 47 kohmia.
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@mjo33400, thank you for this advice, i will check this when i get back home. Just to be sure, you are speaking about the 3 LED on the Gas Switch module? Kind regards, Patrick
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Patrick, as LammitinGuru stated, the temperature sensor (NTC) is roughtly
47Kohm but it is parallel with 56,2kohm and 121kohm giving 21,13kohm total.
It is equated as 1/((1/47kohm) + (1/56,2kohm) + (1/121kohm))
(I expect you don't have remote sensor equipped)
The reason to focus in temperature sensing is obviously in that the heater
doesn't start but doesn't enter alarm state either. So the controller MCU
sees everything OK without need to call for heat. The conclution ==> temperature
is measured wrong.
/* @Mjo: Tuossa kytkennässä häiritsee se että jännite mittausketjulle on otettu
kontrollerin navasta 6 joka ei välttämättä/stabiilisti saavuta syöttävän
regulaattorin jännitettä. Noin nopeasti silmäiltynä en löytänyt LAY-OUT-kuvaan
verrattuna virhettä mutta itse en suunnittelisi piiriä noin. Oletko sattumoisin
tullut koskaan mitanneeksi minkä verran kuutosnavassa saattaisi olla jännitteen
alenemaa Vdd:en verrattuna. Kysyn siksi että sen tiedon perusteella voisi
arvioida muutosta jos sellaista on päässyt tapahtumaan.
MCU:n navat 7 ja 8 ilmeisesti pystyisivät paljastamaan totaalin katkoksen
joissain kohtaa mittausketjua. MCU ilman AD-muuntimia ei tietystikään voi olla
kovin hienovarainen tuossa suhteessa mutta ilmeisesti itsediagnoosiin on ainakin
varauduttu. Mielenkiintoista. */
Patrick, in case NTC is not failed, can you measure voltages on MCU pins 6,7,8
and 18?
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I need to rectify my last comment. In the entry you clearly stated that the controller
starts the heating sequence, it means heating actually is called for. I should have read
the entry again after being absent awhile. Some rethinking is needed now.
So you told that heating sequence proceeds somewhat, looks like to the point where
ignition in expected. Those LEDs in the valve PCB indicates that holding coils are energized
but they does not necessarily open without activation coils energized. Now the question arises
if you did hear the clunking sound they make on opening? The red alarm LED in the control
panel should light up on missed ignition anyway...
On the last picture in #5 the valve unit connector looks like slided partly away of its position?
Do I see it correctly?
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@Mjerica
i checked the 48k Ohm resistor, its 29k Ohm, i hope i catched the correct one? Since this is parallel with 2 others, you mentioned it should be 21.3 k Ohm?
i realized the red diode on the control panel was no more soldered correctly to the controller board, i fixed that.
now i try to measure the voltage on the mainboard on the mentioned ports, MCU pins 6,7,8
and 18, what are the expected values?
at least now the red error LED works again on the control panel, but i have still the same problem, please see the video under this link:
https://share.icloud.com/photos/077ElUcjtaMszZ_tRd7OL2YVg
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Patrick, in this picture you are measuring between wrong points.
(75k&47k connected to U2 pin 7)
In the picture, the temperature sensor RT1 is just behind your plusprobe tip.
"i realized the red diode on the control panel was no more soldered correctly to the controller board"
- Now this begins to make sense, we were dealing with two independent faults. That is often confusing.
One fault left.... for now on, everything should become more straightforward.
- Let's leave MCU pins 6,7,8,18 for a moment, we'll come back to these later if necessary.
@Patrick:
"I hear the blower turns on, after 15sec the gas switch opens (on the gas switch for a short
time the 3rd led is active, then only the 2 top leds are active > see attached picture),
the ignitor is active for 2-3 secs, then the blower starts to turn faster and nothing happens"
In the video, what I saw, (or I believe I saw), it looks like no valve LED on until in the final
moment of ignition. And then, only very short flash simultaneously with (main?)valve opening
sound followed by shutdown to the alarm state.
Do you see/hear something different?
My (kind of) impression is that valve activation makes supply voltage to drop abruptly and causes
shutdown and terminates the starting sequence. Some other explanations are possible though.
I will check the video some more time tomorrow.
It would be interesting know how voltages behave in (main controller PCB) PIC16C62A pins 26, 27
and connector JP2 pins 4, 3 respectively in starting sequense. But these needs very carefull handling
of probes not to make damaging short circuits.
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@Mjerica
thank you for your answer, i just measured the correct resistor, and its 27.4 k Ohm.
i will try to measure the PCB-Board Pins 26, 27, and JP2 pin 4,3 tonight.
The video i posted, is the exact problem situation, its every time the same behavior.
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@mjo33400, thank you for this advice, i will check this when i get back home. Just to be sure, you are speaking about the 3 LED on the Gas Switch module? Kind regards, Patrick
Kyllä puhun.
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@Patrick: "i will try to measure the PCB-Board Pins 26, 27, and JP2 pin 4,3 tonight"
- We must expect rapid changes in these signals, probably beyound human reception, but
hopefully we get something usefull. Digital storage oscilloscope would be the king.
Anyway, be carefull when touching MCU:s pins, it is easy to make unrepairable damage.
/*Laitan tähän suomeksi hieman vaikutelmia tästä tapauksesta siltä varalta että joku saattaisi
huomata jotain oleellista vaikka ei muutoin olisikaan kiinnostunut seuraamaan englanninkielistä
ketjua. Itse en ehkä ehdi suuremmin tietokoneen ääreen "päästäisen hulinan&voimienkeruun" aikana.
Oheisessa videotallenteessa kuvittelen näkeväni että polttimen käynnistys
alkaa normaalin oloisesti aina siihen saakka kunnes on aika avata kaasuventtiileitä,
(pääventtiili+4kW teho + sytytys). 4kW teho:n pitosignaalista kertoo kaksi ylintä LED:iä mutta
ne räpsähtävät vain lyhyesti samalla kun arvelen kuulevani ainakin jonkin venttiilin vetävän.
Eli ainakin yksi venttiilin vetosignaali olisi todennettu. Ilmeisesti vain mittaus kertonee
saadaanko useampia. Joka tapauksessa nyt kun hälytysmerkkivalo on saatu toimimaan niin se kertoo
että tapahtuu siirtyminen häiriötilaan, tuohan sotki aluksi päättelyä pahanpäiväisesti.
Olisi hyvä jos joku muukin tarkistaisi mitä näkee tuolla videolla, näkeekö saman
mitä minä olen näkevinäni joka siis poikkeaa hieman siitä mitä aloittaja kertoo tilanteesta.
Voisiko videotoistin tehdä jotain tällaista?
Päättelen niin että 4kW teho:n pitosignaalin katoaminen on niin nopea ettei syynä
voisi olla tieto liekinseurannasta vaan tapahtuu jokin suora sisäinen reaktio, esim. jännitteen
notkahdus vetokelojen kuorman aiheuttamana. Miten sitten todentaa noin nopeita tapahtumia
yleismittarilla.... . ehkä täytyy keksiä jotain.
Aloittaja on nyt ilmeisesti mitannut lämpöanturilta vastuksen 27.4kohm joka rinnakkaiskuormanki n
kanssa on varsin korkea mutta kun polttimen käynnistyssekvenssi epäonnistuu niin se pitänee selvittää
ensin.*/
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dear community, sorry for my late response, needed to find the easter eggs :)
JP2 Pin 3 Right connector 2kW heating control - 11.5V
JP2 Pin 4 Right connector 4kW heating control - 11.5V
i tested it via land power, and battery power. i have now a suspect on my aftermarket Victron Blue Charger which i run in a combination with a Voltic 35Ah LIFEPO Battery.
the Pins
PIC Pin 26 IC1 right side Drives control transistor (Q22 path)
PIC Pin 27 IC1 right side Drives control transistor (Q1 path)
i have not yet measured since i dont have so small tips at my hand, need to organize those before.
thank you and happy easters
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Good day everyone
I have resolved the battery issues, now i have better and constant current.
I measured again durring the startphase:
PIC Pin 26 - 5.1v - 5.4v
PIC Pin 27 - 0v
JP2 Pin 3 - 12.8v
JP2 Pin 4 - 12.4v
Still the same situation, it tries to start, and goes to error on the controller (as in the video).
Any ideas?
Thank you and have a good day
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Good day everyone
I have resolved the battery issues, now i have better and constant current. (i ment the voltage, not current (wrong translated))
I measured again durring the startphase:
PIC Pin 26 - 5.1v - 5.4v
PIC Pin 27 - 0v
JP2 Pin 3 - 12.8v
JP2 Pin 4 - 12.4v
Still the same situation, it tries to start, and goes to error on the controller (as in the video).
Any ideas?
Thank you and have a good day
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@Patrick:
"PIC Pin 26 IC1 right side Drives control transistor (Q22 path)"
"PIC Pin 27 IC1 right side Drives control transistor (Q1 path)"
-Q22? Q1? Have you measured something of Q22/Q1?
@Patrick:
"PIC Pin 26 - 5.1v - 5.4v
PIC Pin 27 - 0v
JP2 Pin 3 - 12.8v
JP2 Pin 4 - 12.4v"
- Do you mean these voltages kept these levels (all the way during
starting sequence) without changes? I expected some rapid transitions.
How would you descripe the behaviour of valve unit LEDs during starting sequence?
I mean, as precisily as possible and also time referenced to ignition "buzz"
(I understand you recognized ignition by its sound?)
Do you see voltage on JP2/pin2 simultaneously with ignition "buzz"?
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The Voltage starts from 0V to the measured values when i hear the click in the gas switch. After a few seconds (need to count exactly) i would say, 3-5secs, the voltage decreases within 1sec back to 0v.
The ignititor is good to hear after the gas switch "clacking sound", its a very silent frequently pulsing sound (ca 3-4secs)
To your question: Do you see voltage on JP2/pin2 simultaneously with ignition "buzz"? >>>> i need to verify this tonight, i feel like it is the same time, but not 100% sure.
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i measured again
PIC Pin 26 5.1v - 5.4v (while igntion is active)
PIC Pin 27 0v
JP2 Pin 3 12.8v - 13.0v constant (while igntion is active)
JP2 Pin 4 12.4v - 1sec 12.8v, then 12.5v (while igntion is active)
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Being busy these days my response have delayed but some quick notes here anyway:
- As you may noticed in #1. for gas to flow it takes two (solenoid)valves to operate.
The main (security)valve which is always needed.
And
one or both of heating power control valves (2kW or 4kW).
All these requires a holding voltage to keep open and at least a pulse of actuating
voltage to open. Those LEDs tells only of holding voltage of heating power control valves,
they do not tell anything about valve actuations.
So, the "clacking sound" tells about opening of one valve. Distinguishing of two valves
to open is needed. Without any electrical measuring you might try to touch those solenoids
to feel if they operate.
There is another way to check gas flow wery directly:
As you open the bottle valve shortly, then if you later open some gas appliance valve (f.e.
gas stove) you may hear "a hizz" and may even light it up for a second. That is also a practical
way to check for leaks in system. Now, if you have tried to start your heater in meantime and
found that gas is disappered from distribution lines, you know that your Aquaflex had succeeded
to open gas flow at least for a moment (during starting sequence). If there is still pressure
left in lines then one of the needed valves has failed to open.
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@Mjerica
Sorry, i was also not checking since last friday (the website was also not working for 2 days, at least in Switzerland)
i will try the mentioned tests.
Other question:
When i start the heater on electric power, with mode 1 (1kw) no matter what temperature i set, the system keeps heating up until i feel like in a sauna.
Could this be related to the temperature senros (rt1) or the potentio meter (temperature selector) which is broken?
thanks again
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@Mjerica
Sorry, i was also not checking since last friday (the website was also not working for 2 days, at least in Switzerland)
i will try the mentioned tests.
Other question:
When i start the heater on electric power, with mode 1 (1kw) no matter what temperature i set, the system keeps heating up until i feel like in a sauna.
Could this be related to the temperature senros (rt1) or the potentio meter (temperature selector) which is broken?
thanks again
Se liittyy ohjauspaneelin lämpötila-anturiin tai trimmeri potentiometriin ( lämmön säätö ).
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@Patrick: "Could this be related to the temperature senros (rt1) or the potentio meter
(temperature selector) which is broken?"
- As you have measured 27.4kohm of temperature sensor with parallel resistors it is way too high
and explaines why electric heating is uncontrolled. When we get gas heating fixed it will do the same.
You can fix that separately, just desolder sensor and measure it. It's nominal value is 47kohm (@25C)
but I believe it is failed and presents much higher value. If so, and if you have easy access to spare
parts, it might make sense to get new NTC-sensor before the gas starting fault is traced. It is up to
your priority.
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Hi, this would be a 47kOhm Resistor, but im not 100% sure, if the temperature scale is the correct?
https://www.reichelt.com/ch/de/shop/produkt/ntc_widerstand_450_mw_47_kohm-240049
thanks for an advice
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(>> #26) That resistor seems to be suitable. Have you checked your sensor NTC separately?
I expect you will also need more electronic spares for fixing gas section, hopefully so
because that would be the easy case. Model specific spares for old types heaters are
usually more troublesome to find. Not only for Aquaflex but many other models too.
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Ok, ordered the Resistor and the replacement Potentionmeter.
what do you mean testing the NTC seperately?
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Hello everyone, i recieved today the resistor and the potentiometer.
i soldered everything to the print (can the resitor be wrong with polarity?). However, it did not change anything on my issues :(
Next round is up :(
Regards
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"what do you mean testing the NTC seperately?"
Checking a electronic component separately means measuring it desoldered from PCB, isolated
of its circuit, of any other component. That is a regular procedure to positively find its state.
Measuring a component in-circuit is considered prevaluation of its state, it may or may not
reveal its condition, depending of its type and its surroundings in the circuit. Decision to
order spares is made only after that. Only in rare situations operational measurements gives
stronger indication in respect to separately measured component value.
Temperature sensor NTC should affect heaters temperature control only, elecric (which you said
didn't shut down) or gas. It should not have anything to do with gas ignition failure, that is
another problem. Now, it seems to me, we are still dealing with (at least) two faults. Confusion
allways lurks in these cases.
Some points of interest....
1. What resistance did the original NTC show off-circuit?
2. In gas starting sequence, were you able to detect gas escape from supply lines (ie. pressure
drop by valve(s) opening)?
BTW. As you replaced the potentiometer, you expectedly have it in mid-position? At least you
should start by that before further adjustment.
These resistors have no polarity.
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Hello, sorry for my late response, the last time i tried to access the webesite, it was down.
so, honestly, i gave up for now.
I have to retest the situation again, with different positions on the potentiometer.
besides that i doubt if i can test more?